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Talk:Mee Deggi the Punisher
Just confirming, for my own sanity, that the PH theory seems out the door here. Capped three placeholders based on the main page's info, finally decided to just kill every Interrogater and Drummer I saw and lo and behold Mee Deggi popped not one minute after I moved on to the next >.< Of course I missed the claim but meh I'll get this jackass sooner or later. Short story of it all, just kill all the aforementioned birds but don't be a Fairine...wait a couple mins after the death :P --Fairine 08:00, 23 December 2008 (UTC) An in-depth description on Mee Deggi's and Quu Domi's pop behaviour: link --Tengokujin 00:40, 18 April 2007 (EDT) Pulled from the "indepth" discussion: :1/3 on Mee Deggi :0/4 on Quu Domi (four strider swords *.*;) :When the update arrived that transformed Mee Deggi's Ochiudo's Kote into a rare/ex proxy, I decided to take a stab at farming me some new ninja hands. I was delighted to learn that almost instantly, the RMT vanished from Castle Oztroja. :I studied the PH method. I had remembered it briefly when I was but a humble newb, helping my friends camp him way back when I was a level 50 BLM. I brushed up on the PH method, ecstatic because I'm actually very good at PH camping. :Once inside the courtyard, a young lady observes in me the unmistakable ritual of claiming placeholders. She rhetorically asked what I was doing, and consequently mentioned that SE changed the spawn method for both Mee Deggi and Quu Domi. Both of these mobs simply "popped" when their respective windows were open. :I checked several sources, including Alla, about such a change, but nobody else has heard of it. Well a few months passed and I decided not only to give a dedicated try to obtaining Onimusha Kotes, but also to research the PH method. :I can safely say the PH method of both Mee Deggi and Quu Domi is incontrovertibly false. Aside from the 7 claims I made in one day (between the two) I also witnessed 5 other spawns, and none of them followed the place holder method. Often the NM would spawn while the PH was alive and well. Many times the NM would pop 5 or 6 minutes before the PH would. :The only pattern I could find is that both mobs seem to spawn almost exactly 1.5 hours from ToD, or 2 hours from ToD. At one point, Mee Deggi spawned 3 times in a row exactly 2 hours after his last death. I saw only 1 case of a spawn 1 hour after ToD. Personally I would just run in a circle around the moat and kill Yaguda as you see them. -- 06:29, 11 July 2007 (CDT) I have to disagree with the in-depth description as any yagudo in both courtyards can walk in the water. To put it simply, the placeholder is the yagudo that can walk between spawn regions like Mee Deggi. --Raithen 15:33, 11 June 2007 (MDT) Iv been camping it for a few days now and no it doesnt pop after 1h or 2h top. i was killing all yagudo myself (i was alone) and it took it 2h42 to repop. iv seen it repop every 1h20~ more than 2h+ though. idk what SE did with this NM but its more broken than anything ... Placeholder!? Seriously, what the hell is wrong here!? It seems like Mee Deggi is some kind of timed-spawn. 12:15 (ingame time) the Placeholder dies (yes it WAS the placeholder, I checked it with wide scan, and "dies" means his corpse vanished...) ... so the next placeholder or Mee Deggi the Moron should spawn at exactly 17:15 and what happened I got outclaimed on Mee Deggi at 16:20!!! (no drop anyway) and at 17:15 the "placeholder" spawned... so what's that!? Maybe SE changed Mee Deggi to a timed-spawn (when they changed the O-kote into two of them blah blah) and forget to put out the placeholder, now we have a phantom-placeholder. At least that's my opinion. EDIT: Okay now I saw Mee Deggi spawning DURING his placeholder was still allive and unclaimed... what else do you need to know? Either Mee Deggi is now a timed Spawn with a window of 1-1.5h (never saw him spawn later) or he has got another placeholder... one of the other yagudos. --Haitani 06:17, 16 August 2007 (CDT) Look at this picture ... here you can see the wide scan of this mee deggi spawn area, where you can see the Cutter in the upper part... right after the cutter there is a Yagudo Herald (who's already dead on that screenshot) and a Yagudo Oracle (with his Elemental), this are the two Yagudos that spawn right on that islnd in the middle, directly after this two Yagudos either a Yagudo Drummer or a Yagudo Interrogator(like in that case) will spawn anywhere on the map as Mee Deggi's placeholder, at least it was like that before, but as you can see, Mee Deggi and his so-called placeholder are up at the same time. I try to find out more about that guy and his spawn conditions (everytime he spawned when I was there he had a window of 70-90 minutes). --Haitani 03:35, 20 August 2007 (CDT) Did anyone ever consider the possibility that they just changed the placeholder? I tend to agree it's timed now, but if there is a placeholder it has obviously been changed. --JTimmons 17:40, 1 March 2008 (UTC) Honestly, I don't see how people think this is not a PH NM. If there is no one there, take a few minutes to look at the area, and watch the Yagudos. The one that roams freely about the entire square is the PH, plain and simple. I've had this NM spawn 3 different times for me over a 5-6 hour period by killing just one Yagudo. --Docstu 09:13, 22 March 2008 (UTC) I've camped this NM a week straight since the r/e update. (A week off, fiancee wanted to sell her Okotes, so we staticed Ochimusha Kote with a few friends, the average party size was around 4 players, sometime less and oftentims more.) I don't see how people claim he's a timed spawn... That week on Shiva was almost free of campers except for around 20 spawns... Everytime we wiped every yagudo from the map, the NM spawned within the first hour after his window opened. We tried not killing a single yagudo and ended up quitting for the day after 5 hours, no one else in the room and 4 people watching. That being said, I don't think one single yag is his PH anymore.. I tried killing the one yagudo who roams around; the moment a yagudo tried to scale the hill in the middle he had 3 players jump him. The spawn still took 4 hours. I can suggest a theory that I've tested for the majority of a week, as the point was to get the drop and test other theories to see if we could get an edge on the competition if we helped someone else with them. The one theory am I working on, however, (please, if anyone is camping this NM a ton, test it if you would) is that Mee Deggi may just have a low chance of taking any yagudo's spawn when his window is open. I haven't heard of a NM like this, but it seems to fit. Killing no yagudo has never yielded me the NM in the 200+ hours I've camped it, while killing one has popped him, it took a very long time, and wiping the map of yagudo seemed to yield the best results. I'm starting to believe he has say, a 5% (number needs further testing) chance of loading in a random yagudo's place, though he can spawn in multiple locations on the map, some which have no regular yagudo spawn. I've seen him spawn in the Northwest corner by the Altar Room, the Southwest corner by the pond, on the bridge and below it, on the ground on either side of the bride to the west and east, and on the east side of the stream going into the south wall. I can verify that in my entire time camping this, it has never shown to be a timed spawn, regardless of how much that fact is debated. ---Alaik 1:42 pm PST March 22, 2008 While popping the NM does depend on killing a particular PH, it appears as though the PH is more of a 'trigger' than an actual 'placeholder'. Firstly, the NM doesn't follow the same 12-minute rule that all of the other yags do. Secondly, it has the ability to pop while the PH/Trigger mob is also up. Obsy 13:23, January 13, 2010 (UTC) ---- Some additional info moved from main page. These claims are unverified. -- 19:00, 29 August 2007 (CDT) :*When using Wide Scan, look for the two Yagudo on the island in the center of the room. The placeholder for Mee Deggi the Punisher is the next Yagudo in the list, either a Yagudo Interrogator or a Yagudo Drummer. :*The spawn time for individual Yagudo in this room is 5 game hours, or 12 real time minutes. :*There is only one Placeholder that can either spawn as Yagudo Interrogator or Yagudo Drummer. He can be identified by his spawn and movement behaviour. He can spawn all over the place like Mee Deggi. This means if you see a Yagudo spawn on the bridge or in the water, it probably is the Placeholder. He can also move from the platform down into the water and vice versa like no other Yagudo. :*Note: It seems that Mee Deggi isn't a lottery spawn anymore, because he can spawn independant from the 12-minute spawn window of his placeholder and even while his placeholder is still living/unclaimed. Perhaps SquareEnix turned Mee Deggi into a timed spawn, when they add the Ochimusha Kote and turned the Ochiudo's Kote into an BCNM drop, and just forgot to remove his old placeholder. ---- :*TIP - If no one is killing the monsters in the area, there will be one corner in the room with 3 Yagudo. One of these is the placeholder. Only bother with the one (or two) that are either a Yagudo Drummer or Yagudo Interrogator just to make sure you kill the correct one. :*Some people claim that the placeholder theory is false. There are a few potential ways that this NM works. He either spawns randomly after the first placeholder is killed within his window, meaning there is no reason to constantly kill the Placeholder. Or, he will spawn randomly at any time between the death of the previous placeholder and the next potential placeholder. ::Camped all day and witnessed every spawn during my camping period, unfortunately not all fought by me due to an unexpected spawn. Mee Deggi spawned neither a few seconds after PH was killed nor after the respawn timer had been filled. Due to this I feel he will spawn randomly between the place holder's respawn time. If timable, I would estimate approx. 5 min. however best to keep on alert at all times. ---- Droprate I have a friend that got Okote on his first kill, however others don't have such luck. Cyprias reports 0/13 for Okote on the wikiboards and it took me personally 23 kills to get mine. Good luck campers! --Einheit 00:44, 16 August 2007 (CDT) Nothing - 1/2 I walked in, someone was in the process of killing him, so I had ToD. Everyone cleared out except an AFK PLD75. First pop was an hour 17 minutes, no drop. Second pop was 57 minutes later. I am very meticulous with my ToD, and am for sure on this pop being under an hour, if only by 3 minutes. I killed it DRG50/THF25, although I do not believe TH helps this drop in any way. GOOD LUCK to all who camp this guy, I know he can be stingy. --NothingWay 07:31, 15 January 2009 (UTC) Rassiel: 0/37 --Rassiel of Hades 12:14, 26 June 2009 (Central) Heif: 0/33 -_-; Mans :0/5 Khalil : 1/25 Good luck to all the campers!!! Evagelo: 1/6 Pure luck. I've been helping my brother try for them and we are currently at 0/10 and I've heard of others who are at 0/20+. --Evagelo 12:01, 31 December 2007 (UTC) Burizado: 1/5 --Burizado 10:37, 13 February 2008 (EST) 0/20 --JTimmons 17:32, 1 March 2008 (UTC) 1/5 --User:NewDefect 00:20, 13 October 2009 (Central) --Mavr1ck 18:37, 14 April 2008 (UTC)Nectorus(valefor): 1/30 I have help camp this for other and not seen it drop then i get lucky with an empty room with no camper. I think the help of Yinky with TH2+Thf Knife really helped GL to you guys ----Mavr1ckMavr1ck 18:37, 14 April 2008 (UTC) Jared Fox 2:30am CST 16 August 2008 1/13 I don't believe that just because both items cannot drop at the same time, it implicitly means TH doesn't help on Kote drop. As long as we don't know (at least I don't) how the drops are determined we can't be sure of TH's influence on this. An example of a system that would make TH still useful: Lets say Kote drops at 5% and Knuckles 95%. For every drop a random number ranging from 1-100 will be rolled. If the number is lower than the drop percentage of the item, than that item would be dropped. (i.e. if it rolled anything lower than 5 than you would receive the Kote, anything higher than 5 drops the Knuckles.) So lets say you got TH2, which would make Kote drop for 10% (see Treasure Hunter Testing by Enedin) any roll lower than 10 would drop the Kote. Note that this is just an example of a drop system that would make TH still useful for Kote, I have in no way tested this but I know that its been used in other games. (e.g.:RO) (Also I have no idea if the system for how drops are determined is already known, I haven't seen anything for it anyway :p) --Risa 00:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC) I believe the major factor is not that both items can never drop, but the factor that one item has to. Treasure Hunter in all it's forms seems to give a percentage increase, but everything points to a shared drop. So if one item HAS to drop, the rate on the Kote can not increase without treasure hunter actually *decreasing* the drop rate on the impact knuckles. And while most people if not 99.5% want the Kote, I have personally with my own eye seen someone who was levelling Monk and farming white rocks claim Mee Deggi and invite someone to his party when the Okote dropped, stating, "That figures! The one time I want the damn knucks he drops the 1% drop I have! ><" So unless the game wanted to actually harm Thieves who were levelling Monk and trying for the knuckles while farming, TH can't possibly play a factor on shared drops, just the ones with a straight %. It really makes logical sense that Treasure Hunter will have no effect on either the Ochimusha Kote Or the Sarutobi Kyahan as both are from NMs with a "shared drop". 1/80 with TH1-3 always being present and 1/7 without it, so it's just dumb luck, IMO anyway. ---Alaik 1/4 75 THF/DNC. Last kill equipped the Impact Knuckles out of spite for the win. o.O --Delvish.Ind 02:12, 19 October 2008 (UTC) 1/9-10 Most kills were with Thief (TH2) and got them when killed it with my Red Mage. No impact knuckles equipped but I had strider sword on the inventory (However I don't believe that helps in any way). Time to start leveling my Monk ^^ --Souf 16:12, 6 November 2008 (UTC) I'm 1/1 on these. I had Treasure Hunter IV on, dont know if that is what did it or if it was just plain luck. total time camped this NM approx. 1.5 hour :D ~-~Zanno~-~ 08:36, 13 January 2009 (UTC) 1/1: MNK/BST. 55% waning moon (if it matters). 0/141 -.-;;; Good. Luck. --Avilas 1/1 on the kotes, had impact knuckles from AH, equipped those on my 75thf, don't know if it helped but I certainly got the drop. --Jakk Frost 23:35, December 11, 2009 (UTC) Went 1/6 on Asura during recent farming. Information? This page seems like a bit of a mess. Not sure the reason, but the information is getting crossed somewhere. The article itself says that this is a lot pop, however common consensus is that it is a timed spawn since the r/e update (with recent mob behavior confirming the general consensus). The "9/13" comment there as well is hardly enough data to say for certain that there's a preference to the side it can pop on and should be posted in talk not on the main article. Not too sure on the drop rate either, but then most of the drop rates on this site get out of context due to improper editing anyway, and a rough idea is better than none. Having just started hunting this NM I am in no position to set anything right and am using Alla instead, however, if there is anyone out there who can verify and have some solid information on this NM, drops, behavior and such, could you please edit the article to reflect accurate information?--Solux 15:17, 12 January 2008 (UTC) I only went 1/9 on him or so, but, I camped him through several spawns with a guy who ended up going 1/49. It seems to be sort of a mixture, in all honesty. It's not so much that he's a true placeholder spawn anymore, but placeholders do have something to do with it. If you watch the times of deaths of the "placeholder" mobs(plural IS true there, and the location/corner+ToD) you can predict when/which corner he'll spawn in, somewhat accurately, as long as you're in the spawn window. I saw it happen for 6 spawns in a row (as predicted by the guy I was camping with, who either was making it up and really lucky or I don't know what). He'll pop instead of a normal Yagudo when they should, or if they're not dead, he can pop on his own (which is what makes this all confusing). It's not exactly a lottery spawn, because he can pop on his own like I said.. but it gives a bit more of a rough guideline. Like I said though, I'm only 1/9, and have only been around for roughly 14 spawns of him (and the first few of those I didn't know about this), so I can't act like this is all perfect fact.--Alydra 23:55, 17 January 2008 (UTC) Removed information from main page This is so far a false information, therefore I removed from main page and leave it here. :*Can spawn anytime from when the PH dies until it repops. (This is a fault statement, please remove this, there are numerous report saying PH can be up and alive, and the NM can pop, I myself have just seen it w/ my own eye that the so-call PH is up and unclaim while the NM is being fought). (--Kenshinx 06:57, 20 February 2008 (UTC)) (It could just be that the afforementioned placeholder is not the right one. Just because a yagudo seems out of place doesn't make him a PH. EG: The Giant Amoeba in Zeruhn Mines is no PH, yet is a very odd mob for that zone. Before doubting a PH method, test spawn times without killing any yagudo.) --Alaik 3:41 PST 29 March 2008 I know very well what PH is and I have camped numerous PH-type NM (i.e. Intulo in Bibiki Bay) as THF/BST, being /BST I gain Widescan therefore know exactly which mob is PH, not just by observation of "out of place". Cutterx6 ( I think it's 6) Yagudo (on center platform) Yagudo (on center platform) PH NM Ygudo Zealot (on top platform) The PH lottery is simply false for this NM. --Kenshinx 06:32, 5 March 2009 (UTC) :* I dedicated a weekend to camping this NM (1/12 if you care) and got all but two claims however those two times I was afk until right after the end (ironically it dropped both times I missed). I only killed the PH that wiki suggested and each time it popped between 1 and 2 hours, so the PH listed on the main page is true. Second: It is not a time-spawned NM, people who claim this haven't studied his behaviours enough. The NM isn't a traditional lottery spawn, rather once a PH is dead he has a chance to appear, anywhere in the courtyard. However he does not take the place of his place holder, so I'd consider the PH to be more like a trigger, which is why people claim to see them up at the same time because more often then not he will spawn just before the 12 minute mark so by the time you check widescan the real PH is back. I hope that this can help to clear up some questions about this NM. He certainly is a pain to camp. Just on a side note, there is a statement on the page that says Treasure Hunter does not affect the drop rate. I do not like this claim. It is quite probable that TH doesn't affect the drop rate because he always drops one or the other however there is no proof of it, furthermore there is no proof of the effects of TH, so I think that a more suitable statement is, it is quite unlikely Treasure Hunter doesn't affect this drop. Good Luck Hunting! --Ix'Sindri 03:44, October 20, 2009 (UTC) timed pop? Definitely not. Talk:Quu Domi the Gallant#pop and repop I was popping flee and catching Mee Degi almost every time after Quu Domi. Neither one seems to have a set repop, they just tend to pop around the same time for me. --1.quos.vita.habitum.captivus 23:45, 1 March 2008 (UTC) I have noticed that when I have camped him and had control of the spawn that there was more then an hour to his repop. I would see that he did at times pop right on the hour after death. But, for the most part was I as was anywhere from 20 - 45 mins plus the hour. And i can this with a fact for myself seeing him either my claim or someone else at least 10 times. --Mavr1ck 20:47, 14 April 2008 (UTC) Definitely not a Timer pop. Definitely not. There was time when no one did anything for over 30 minutes. No one was killing Yagudo, we were just sitting around, and Mee Deggi didn't pop. then we killed everything, it didn't take him long to pop. Based on my experience, there's no question about it. he's not a timer pop.--Suirieko 20:38, 8 October 2008 (UTC) Inconclusive information You know what... With all the debate and heresay about PH vs. timed spawn, JUST FIGURE OUT YOUR OWN CAMPING METHOD. We, the Wiki community, are never going to come to agreement about which is true. Believe what you want. It's not like his spawn is flooded with RMT anymore - you'll eventually get those gloves if you're patient. IllusioRemora 19:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC) What relevance does this have to anything being said? Just curious... Though I believe the debate is due to the fact the Timed Spawn rumor is oftentime fostering bad play practices. My Theory I think this NM's pop behavior is similar to Kreutzet's. When its window is open, it may pop instead of his PH, if it doesn't pop during the window, it will force pop regardless of PH dead or not. (Window is 1h-4h I think) Mostruash 11:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC) From my limited experience from both Mee Deggi and Quu Domi, I have to agree with what Alaik said. I started camping Quu Domi and was all alone in that zone. After 1 hour of killing nothing, it didn't spawn - another hour of killing yags that were declared as PH's on the site, it still didn't spawn. So I just waited until every yag respawned - trained them and wiped the whole area. Next spawn Quu Domi pop'd. After that, I went to Mee Deggi (still alone) - wiped the whole area and Mee Deggi pop'd too. Since I was still alone I just went to Swiftblade and killed him too. After making sure its been 1 hour from Domi's ToD I went back - wiped the whole area again and he spawned a few mins later. (this worked another 3 times on both NM's until I got too ambitious and died while training the yags xD) Risa 17:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC) Mee Deggi = Strider Sword ~ Quu Domi = Impact Knuckles I would first like to say my theory isn't 100% comfirmed. My theory goes like this, Finish off Mee Deggi with Strider Sword and finish off Quu Domi with Impact Knuckles. Why whould I think about this? Well I was thinking sence Mee Deggi's PHs are oppoisite of Quu Domi's PHs, killing them with the opposite weapon would increace the rate of Sarutobi and O-Kote. I'v tested this. Job used THF63/BST31. (And yes I would think that Treasure Hunter would help increace the rate of O-kote and Sarutobi. I would also think it would work without it too.) Mee Deggi the Punisher: 2/5 Quu Domi the Gallant: 2/4 I have finished off by opposite weapons. I'v gotten to for me and my friend. I'm not really sure if Treasure Hunter was helping or not. I did not have any other job that could hold both Strider Sword and Impact Knuckles to find out if it would work without Treasure hunter. My theory might seem silly but it feels like the drops were increaced by 40~50%. This is my theory, I can or cannot work, but its worth testing out. Just trying to help those long time campers, Camping this NM. --Kiyoharu 03:09, 18 August 2008 (UTC) After obtaining 0/14 on Ochimusha Kotes from Mee Deggi the Punisher. I claimed Mee Deggi the Punisher for the 15th time, and remembering reading this theory I changed to my Strider Sword I got earlier to kill it. There and then it dropped the Ochimusha Kotes, putting me at 1/15 or 1/1 killing with a Strider Sword. I'm not sure if this is just coincidence though, as it was about time it had dropped. Zenric 19:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC) A seemingly ridiculous but not without its possibilities. I however did the opposite. Still as THF I equipped the Impact Knuckles when killing Mee Deggi purely out of spite and ended up getting my O Kote. Plan on using the sword on Quu Domi for a similar result, but as it currently stands, killing with one of the dropped weapons at least appears to help. (If anything it is about similar to carrying around a Wild Rabbit Tail for rare drops) Seems like a good theory but it seems like reports are of people being THF main or sub and killing with opposite weapon. Since TH has an obvious effect on other mobs we can't even really verify weapon killing the NM increases drop rate.--AzulAeolus 16:56, 5 November 2008 (UTC) TH has no effect on the drop rate of these items because of their inter-dependence (similar to BCNM treasure loadouts). As for the effect of using the knuckles/sword, a much larger sample of kills (both with and without these items) is needed before any conclusions could be drawn (in the order of several hundred).-- 02:23, 8 February 2009 (UTC) Didn't work for me 6 times in a row on each NM. If you tried this and got the drop congrats but it was not because of this. I'm not sure why people are so concerned into proving theres a trick to getting the drop from these NMs. They are some of the oldest in the game. This theory is false please don't take it as fact. There is no trick to getting the drop, good luck to those who camp him. --Ix'Sindri 03:50, October 20, 2009 (UTC) Mee Deggi Theory I can't place proof positive since I've known people go 0/30+ and I went 1/3, but this is what I can say. When using Wide Scan, look for the two Yagudo on the island in the center of the room. The placeholder for Mee Deggi the Punisher seems to be the next Yagudo in the list, either a Yagudo Interrogator or a Yagudo Drummer. The spawn time for individual Yagudo in this room is 12 real time minutes. There is only one Placeholder that can either spawn as Yagudo Interrogator or Yagudo Drummer. He can be identified by his spawn and movement. He can spawn all over the place like Mee Deggi. This means if you see a Yagudo spawn on the bridge or in the water, it probably is the Placeholder. He seems to have a LARGE patrol area as he will wander from one wall to another. Lethewaters 20:35, 14 October 2008 (EST) I hate you I hate you mee, i hate you, currently 0/23. that is all --Nattack 21:12, 23 December 2008 (UTC) 0/31 --Nattack 06:49, 27 December 2008 (UTC) 0/40 currently on a 4 hour wait --Nattack 15:40, 30 December 2008 (UTC) 1/20 and happy 0/19 thf or /thf... Nin/dnc 1/1. Good luck =D :* "Tip": There is a rumor that if you use the Impact Knuckles to defeat him that there is a higher chance the Ochimusha Kote will drop. Like i said this is a rumor but the time I did get drop I defeated him with the Impact Knuckles equiped. 23 kills with Impact Knuckles no drop. Moved off main page.--Beaster 14:24, 19 May 2009 (UTC) Still no drop but TH i seriously doubt works here 0/6 so far on this so not as bad as some. However what i wanted to say is that i really dont htink there is actually a PH for this NM. I have tried killing the so called PH and the NM pops while im fighting him. I have also wiped the area clean including the central block and he has popped also. I have left all yags alone and he still has popped. Obviously this need further research but i personally am starting to believe that he is a timed spawn like the Moldavite Ring NM. Drop rates for O-Kote suck we all know that and one day this thing will drop for me lol. Getting onto the TH aspect of my title. I been reading comments how some people are trying to justify that TH works with this NM by saying TH will increase O-Kote drop but decrease that of Impact Knuckles. Thats just plain silly lol. If it increases 1 it has to increase the other. Its simple logic. And seeing as you cant actually have more than 100% then what your looking at is a useless TH for this. Now had the drop rates for this been Impact Knuckles 40% and O-Kote 5% you still have leg room for 55% to work with in increasing your luck getting the O-Kote. Since this is not the case, the only thing i can honestly think of why people want to believe that TH actuially works with this NM is to make themselves feel better. Ill get you in the end Mee Deggi and believe me it will be me that will be the punisher!!!! Chaosprime 11:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC) Unless the game checks to see if kotes drop first, and then check to see the knuckles. If kotes dropped, knuckles don't drop. If kotes drop, knuckles don't drop. Not saying that's how it is, but consider that possibility as well --Annalise 23:10, November 6, 2009 (UTC) Drop rates *Impact Knuckles 2130/2142 *Ochimusha Kote 112/2142 From this info we assume 2142 have been killed 2130 dropped Impact Knuckles and 112 dropped kote? Since he only drops 1 or the other 2130 + 112 = 2242 100 excess of the Deggi's Dropped both? or am I just confused or have 100 kills been removed? Please reply if I'm off with the way the percentage counts work Lobsang 21:35, December 2, 2009 (UTC) Respawn Time Change? I recently did camps, less than 10 so I can't say for sure but I recommend people check re-spawn times they've seen recently. In the times I did it he always re-spawned within 90 minutes. I am wondering if SE might have shortened re-spawn time.